Brake/Fork Chatter... lube the rim?

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Permalink Reply by Gary Olson on September 8, 2009 at 10:10am

Hi Mike,

I've got a similar issue - I'm on an Orbea Mud (fork is some orbea house brand), with Tektro Oryx brakes and the front chatters pretty bad on hard braking. It all seemed to start after I put on some new Avid XTR style brake pads. i've played around with the toe in and it seems to help, but on really hard braking, the chatter is still there. As the pads have worn, I've noticed less chatter, so I'm hoping it will go away almost completely once the pads have worn in a bit more.

Good luck...

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Permalink Reply by Jason on September 8, 2009 at 3:00pm

First, the Easton fork (while awesome) chatters A LOT...that's the trade off for the light weight and shock absorption.

Second: Try to run a LONGER straddle cable and RAISE your cable-carrier very high...like in the middle of your headtube...the best method (as you mentioned) is to mount your cable stop on your fork, but with the Easton carbon fork that's not possible. But if you can shorten the cable-to-cable stop length, it should cut down on chatter....it may look silly but you can see this on some pro's bike set-ups.

Third: I tightened my headset...not over tightened but tight...that cut down on the shuddering.


Fourth: If you can get it to GO AWAY tell me how....


Feeeyath: Maybe a v-brake or mini-v with its direct-cable-noddle may cut down on chatter, even though it will have more power....maybe?

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Permalink Reply by Mike Tonkinson on September 8, 2009 at 5:58pm

Think I'll try your second and third suggestion tonight or tomorrow... I'll let you know how it goes. I ride a lime green bike with purple bottles, so I'm less concerned with looking silly than in my s**t working correctly. ;) I was thinking about picking up a brake booster too if my LBS has one. They weight like 50grams, but it's worth it if it solves my problem.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on October 4, 2009 at 8:26pm

Does anyone have a pic of a fork mounted cable stop? I have horrible chatter with my Bianchi Axis and Tektro CR720 brakes. But I use my bike for commuting, so I need the front brake. I'm thinking about kool-stop pads when I have the cash to spend. As a note, I use the same wheelset (Campagnolo Khamsin) for both my road bike and Bianchi. When I put the wheels on my road bike for the first time (was in Alaska all summer with the Bianchi as a commuter) I got a small amount of chatter from the front brakes, that did eventually go away. Is this a sign of something?

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Permalink Reply by Mike Tonkinson on October 5, 2009 at 9:12am

Fork mounted cable stop: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/images/tektro1257.jpg

Mounts at the hole at the front of the fork crown (some carbon forks, e.g. the Eastons, don't have front holes).

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Permalink Reply by Rich on October 6, 2009 at 9:12pm

Lucky me the Bianchi has a hole in the fork! Where do I get one? Thanks!

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Permalink Reply by cxchiva on September 8, 2009 at 5:17pm

By the many forums I have read it seems that your particular fork especially has this issue. My Ritchey Pro carbon fork is up there with this problem but toe-in helped a lot. My backup bike has an aluminum steerer and fork shuddering is non-existant. Also, I don't rely on the front brake as much to avoid the issue. And, realistically you shouldn't be using your brakes anywayz.

Although I have a high-end fork I think that they are overrated and don't make a difference in whether I get third or fifth in a race.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Tonkinson on September 8, 2009 at 6:02pm

See, I thought it would be a steerer tube issue too, but my steel fork does the same thing. Maybe it'd be easier to fix, but I didn't avoid chatter before I switched the steel fork out for the Easton. Plus, I ran the Easton on my other cross bike (a 57cm Raleigh), and it doesn't chatter on that bike. That bike has avid cantis of similar design. So I don't know WTF is up.

Once I made the decision to lube the front rim, I was pretty much throwing out any hope of good braking in the front. ;) I'm with you, shouldn't be doing much braking, but I'd rather not overcook too many corners (which I'm a little prone to doing- I have to admit I've stretched my fair share of tape).

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Permalink Reply by andrew on October 5, 2009 at 5:33pm

the only reason extreme toe-in solved this is because it reduced braking power. a bit of toe in helps due to flex in the brake system as everything rotates forward, but extreme toe-in simply reduces the contact patch and therefore braking power. You could do extreme heel in or tiny brake brads and you'd achieve the same thing.

really weak/huge clearance brakes would do the same thing - think mr. grumpys or hogan's with super high straddle and wide yoke.

if you can't do a fork mounted hanger and your system is not full of slop, then reducing braking power is your best bet in lieu of replacing your fork.

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Permalink Reply by CO Crosser on September 9, 2009 at 8:52am

I have a Ritchey WCS carbon fork on my Redline Conquest Team and have some of these same issues. Had it with my AL fork on my old Redline. It's odd to me that this is just a problem with CX bikes/forks. Can anyone explain why?

Similar idea to the oil thing but maybe fewer repercussions. The only things i've found to help is a fair amount of Toe In and 'dusting' the rim. What i mean by that is I lay my bike down on its side and sprinkle/pour dust/dirt (the finer the better) all along the rim. I stand it up, most of it falls off but then start riding with the brakes pulled enough for resistance. It seems to impregnate the pad with dust/dirt which allows a little more slippage. I lay the bike down and repeat on the other side. Do it 2X or more until you're getting some success. Once I start racing, the courses here are typically so dusty it seems to take care of itself but have had to repeat the process after washing the bike off, etc.

Ridley bikes have supposedly taken care of this issue with different sized headtube diameters top and bottom.

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Permalink Reply by icolquhoun on September 10, 2009 at 11:06am

on thing i havent seen mentioned in a lot of these write-ups is a loose-fitting cantilever or mini v brake arm on it's stud.....if you can grab the arm and wobbles it front to back...the brake will chatter regardless of how you set it up...
I experienced this after putting the mini-v's on my bike. it chattered WORSE, and i figured out it was a wobbly arm allowing the brake to pulse back and forth as the wheel pushes the front brake away from it's mount and the rear brake towards the boss. I added a THIN shim to the backside of the brakearm and viola...no more chatter.

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Permalink Reply by luis garcia on September 10, 2009 at 12:21pm

That's interesting. I'm getting a lot of chatter on the ec90x I just put on my BMC, I need to adjust the toe-in to see if that helps. Can you attach of picture of this THIN shim you added? Thanks.

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