The need for another Category in racing - Cyclocross Magazine2024-03-29T02:17:07Zhttps://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/forum/topics/the-need-for-another-category-in-racing?feed=yes&xn_auth=noThe system seems to work prre…tag:cowbell.cxmagazine.com,2011-12-15:1198434:Comment:1228872011-12-15T10:08:06.184Zcxchivahttps://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/profile/cxchiva
<p>The system seems to work prretty well here in northern california; Cat A (expert/pro), 35+A and 45+A (equiv. cat 1-3 road), 35+B and 45+B (equiv. cat 3-4 road), Cat C and 35+ C (beginner), Cat B men, cat B women, cat A and B single speed, and 55+ men. These groups are consistently used in nor-cal races depending on the venue. Offers a lot of opportunities for people to race and the system is always self categorization. The largest fields this year had around 80 in the B's. The jump from B's…</p>
<p>The system seems to work prretty well here in northern california; Cat A (expert/pro), 35+A and 45+A (equiv. cat 1-3 road), 35+B and 45+B (equiv. cat 3-4 road), Cat C and 35+ C (beginner), Cat B men, cat B women, cat A and B single speed, and 55+ men. These groups are consistently used in nor-cal races depending on the venue. Offers a lot of opportunities for people to race and the system is always self categorization. The largest fields this year had around 80 in the B's. The jump from B's to A's is HUGE. If a cx racer is on the podium in the B's they can be guaranteed that they will be fighting to not be lapped in the A's.</p> I started racing here in Indy…tag:cowbell.cxmagazine.com,2011-12-15:1198434:Comment:1226192011-12-15T02:51:42.870ZERIC LEWIShttps://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/profile/ERICLEWIS
<p>I started racing here in Indy this year as well and agree totally that the top half of the cat4 field is sandbagging. The top 20 are the same guys over and over. If you compare their times w the cat3 racers, they are competitive.I will say though that I have noticed several racers have moved up to cat3 in the last couple of races :)</p>
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<p>Someone suggested no points for cat4? Why not add cat5 with no points and more revenue for the promoter? I would like to finish somewhere in the…</p>
<p>I started racing here in Indy this year as well and agree totally that the top half of the cat4 field is sandbagging. The top 20 are the same guys over and over. If you compare their times w the cat3 racers, they are competitive.I will say though that I have noticed several racers have moved up to cat3 in the last couple of races :)</p>
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<p>Someone suggested no points for cat4? Why not add cat5 with no points and more revenue for the promoter? I would like to finish somewhere in the top 30 or 40 sometime without sacrificing too much personal time after a long day remodeling. It seems like adding one more race @ 45 minutes wouldn't hurt, especially since the course gets rolled up by 3pm and it doesn't get dark until 530!</p> As a slow, newbie, beginner,…tag:cowbell.cxmagazine.com,2011-11-17:1198434:Comment:1189262011-11-17T14:51:46.662ZRob M.https://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/profile/RobertMaybach
<p>As a slow, newbie, beginner, I think an additional class would be welcome. CX4, which everyone gets dumped in, has huge fields with a wide variety of performance from the riders. Part of this could be a lot of the higher level racers not yet moving up, combined with all the new guys like me dipping their toe in the race waters. I sort of knew what I was getting into after racing MTB last year, but someone truly new to racing could easily be turned off. I'm fortunate in that my area has a…</p>
<p>As a slow, newbie, beginner, I think an additional class would be welcome. CX4, which everyone gets dumped in, has huge fields with a wide variety of performance from the riders. Part of this could be a lot of the higher level racers not yet moving up, combined with all the new guys like me dipping their toe in the race waters. I sort of knew what I was getting into after racing MTB last year, but someone truly new to racing could easily be turned off. I'm fortunate in that my area has a casual training series outside of the points series.</p> I always liked the idea of ha…tag:cowbell.cxmagazine.com,2011-11-15:1198434:Comment:1183612011-11-15T17:59:09.603ZStokedRadhttps://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/profile/StokedRad
<p>I always liked the idea of having 2 days of racing. Since so much thought and work goes into the course prep by dedicated volunteers (or clubs making $$), it makes sense to me to stretch the racing out over a weekend. Have some races on saturday, others on sunday, and mix up the order every other weekend or something to keep it fair. Then for those hardcore racers, they could squeeze in some warm up laps and course recon the day before their races. This would suggest putting the faster…</p>
<p>I always liked the idea of having 2 days of racing. Since so much thought and work goes into the course prep by dedicated volunteers (or clubs making $$), it makes sense to me to stretch the racing out over a weekend. Have some races on saturday, others on sunday, and mix up the order every other weekend or something to keep it fair. Then for those hardcore racers, they could squeeze in some warm up laps and course recon the day before their races. This would suggest putting the faster higher paying categories on the 2nd day typically and leaving those alone.</p>
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<p>I know this won't work for multi day events where they offer all levels of racing on both days, but otherwise, seems like a possible solution.</p>
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<p>I do agree though, a Cat 5 field is needed. And solid enforcing of upgrading. Here in Ohio we have a nice person who runs a blog to call out all sandbaggers! Guilt and peer pressure motivation to upgrade . . .</p> before adding another CAt I o…tag:cowbell.cxmagazine.com,2011-11-14:1198434:Comment:1178402011-11-14T19:28:03.893ZJohn Schmalbachhttps://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/profile/JohnSchmalbach
<p>before adding another CAt I ould first do 2 things. First make mandatory upgrades, second make a rule that people can't register for more than one race a day. Case in point yesterday. First race is a "B" 4,3. Three guys who were already planning on racing the "main" race later in the day also sand bagged the HELL out of this one as a "warm up." I am pretty sure one of them did it because he knew that the podium was his on this race but not in the laer race.</p>
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<p>What good…</p>
<p>before adding another CAt I ould first do 2 things. First make mandatory upgrades, second make a rule that people can't register for more than one race a day. Case in point yesterday. First race is a "B" 4,3. Three guys who were already planning on racing the "main" race later in the day also sand bagged the HELL out of this one as a "warm up." I am pretty sure one of them did it because he knew that the podium was his on this race but not in the laer race.</p>
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<p>What good does adding Categories do if the rider gets discourage when he gets CRUSHED by someone who should not be in his race in the first place. If we want this sport to grow we need more structure. It's not like it was years ago anymore when you let people race in multiple races (B, A, Masters etc.) so the field had some numbers. If we want it to grow more we can not let an antiquated system discourage new riders</p>
<p> </p> Growth has created issues eve…tag:cowbell.cxmagazine.com,2011-11-11:1198434:Comment:1178452011-11-11T21:22:39.600ZBeth Hamonhttps://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/profile/BethHamon
<p>Growth has created issues even in the smaller womens' fields.</p>
<p>Last year, the Beginner Women category at the Cross Crusade races was so large that OBRA is talking about creating a Womens' "C" category for 2012. Beginner womens' numbers have increased yet again this year, with most Crusade races seeing over 90 Beginner women!</p>
<p>I know a ton of women who are planning to sign up for Womens' C as soon as it is offered. Only issue is, it will still be run at the same time the other…</p>
<p>Growth has created issues even in the smaller womens' fields.</p>
<p>Last year, the Beginner Women category at the Cross Crusade races was so large that OBRA is talking about creating a Womens' "C" category for 2012. Beginner womens' numbers have increased yet again this year, with most Crusade races seeing over 90 Beginner women!</p>
<p>I know a ton of women who are planning to sign up for Womens' C as soon as it is offered. Only issue is, it will still be run at the same time the other womens' categories are being run; it will just be scored separately.</p>
<p>Another thing that has helped at least a little bit has been the addition of a Saturday race series (GP Molly Cameron, in its inaugural run this year), which has definitely helped relieved some of the overflow from the Sunday Cross Crusade races. My Master's Women 45+ age group is averaging at least 6 to 10 fewer women on Sundays this year and I think it's because some women are electing to race the much smaller fields on Saturdays instead.</p>
<p>Since there are only so many hours of daylight -- and daylight decreases as the 'cross season progresses -- adding new categories will not necessarily shrink start fields. This is a big reason why I was very gently asked by organizers and officials to stop lobbying for a separate Womens' SInglespeed category and to either race my singlespeed bike with the 200+ [almost entirely male] singlespeeders or in my Masters' age group. Since, according to OBRA rules, my age group is not split into A's and B's -- and remains the smallest of the adult womens' categories -- I can race there virtually forever, even if I finish DFL (as I've consistently done all year). There has been some joking at the staging area about the number of women in our category who are now over 50, and that perhaps adding another age group (55+?) may be in order soon.</p>
<p>IMHO, the growth of the sport is a good problem to have. I'm confident that cooler heads will prevail to manage the growth wisely and fairly.</p> I like what the Chicago CX Cu…tag:cowbell.cxmagazine.com,2011-11-11:1198434:Comment:1178422011-11-11T17:54:43.639Zhellbellyhttps://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/profile/hellbelly
<p><strong>I like what the Chicago CX Cup series does. They break the Cat 4's into A and B with the A's being the serious types that wanna "Cat" up and the "B's" being the newbies and "just for fun/trying it out" types. I race Cat 3/4 Masters and I will also jump into Cat 4 just for fun. The more riding the better.</strong></p>
<p><strong>I like what the Chicago CX Cup series does. They break the Cat 4's into A and B with the A's being the serious types that wanna "Cat" up and the "B's" being the newbies and "just for fun/trying it out" types. I race Cat 3/4 Masters and I will also jump into Cat 4 just for fun. The more riding the better.</strong></p> hmm .. .with number of smalle…tag:cowbell.cxmagazine.com,2011-11-11:1198434:Comment:1177422011-11-11T15:29:36.951ZPatrick Shankhttps://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/profile/PatrickShank
<p>hmm .. .with number of smaller races in New England, I think there's plenty of opportunity for a beginner to get started and see what it's all about. Yes, the Verge Series races pull big numbers - and those can be intimidating, no doubt - but the fields at the smaller races are totally manageable and welcoming for the beginner. </p>
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<p>I think it's important to remember that Cat 4 isn't just for riders trying cx for the first time - it's also for riders who want to be competitive…</p>
<p>hmm .. .with number of smaller races in New England, I think there's plenty of opportunity for a beginner to get started and see what it's all about. Yes, the Verge Series races pull big numbers - and those can be intimidating, no doubt - but the fields at the smaller races are totally manageable and welcoming for the beginner. </p>
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<p>I think it's important to remember that Cat 4 isn't just for riders trying cx for the first time - it's also for riders who want to be competitive at their fitness/skill level. I'm sure there are Cat 4s who should upgrade, but the fastest 4s (save the all-stars who just got licenses will essentially pass "go" straight to the elite field), i.e., those who have earned a point based upgrade, are probably mid-pack 3s, at best. if you're generous, that might get you 60th-75th at a race like Northampton last weekend - which isn't bad considering how deep our Cat 3 field is right now. but the majority of 4s are where they should be, and true beginners should realize that not everybody they line up with will be doing it for the first time. If that's the experience they're after, clinics might be a better option. </p>
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<p> </p> I think if you get rid of the…tag:cowbell.cxmagazine.com,2011-11-11:1198434:Comment:1176092011-11-11T05:04:49.405Zdavehttps://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/profile/dave489
I think if you get rid of the very serious (and fast) riders then Cat 4 becomes what you want the "beginner" division to be. I think the back half (bottom 40, out here) of the cat 4 is pretty fun and low key. As for access to equipment in the pits, that's the incentive to upgrade. Really - how many true cat 4s even have spare wheels? Most flat and are out - if you want more laps, lock out your derailleurs and enter ss. The point is - cat 4 should be for fun, not points or glory.
I think if you get rid of the very serious (and fast) riders then Cat 4 becomes what you want the "beginner" division to be. I think the back half (bottom 40, out here) of the cat 4 is pretty fun and low key. As for access to equipment in the pits, that's the incentive to upgrade. Really - how many true cat 4s even have spare wheels? Most flat and are out - if you want more laps, lock out your derailleurs and enter ss. The point is - cat 4 should be for fun, not points or glory. I honestly think there should…tag:cowbell.cxmagazine.com,2011-11-11:1198434:Comment:1176072011-11-11T04:56:53.592Zanthony sandshttps://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/profile/anthonysands
<p>I honestly think there should be less categories (same speed same cat) Matthew 35+C's looks harder than anything I've seen, thats a lot of traffic man. I'm 36 in the beginners cat, racing a single speed and I ain't gonna race in that class I gunna race C's instead.</p>
<p>I honestly think there should be less categories (same speed same cat) Matthew 35+C's looks harder than anything I've seen, thats a lot of traffic man. I'm 36 in the beginners cat, racing a single speed and I ain't gonna race in that class I gunna race C's instead.</p>