Tubeless in Seattle

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Permalink Reply by chris on October 6, 2009 at 1:47pm

I am about 212lbs and although I swear by Stans on the mountain bike and also run it on the road, I have had several problems on the cross bike. I am still a fan of Stans, but I don't think it works well at low pressure for those of us in the "200 club" for cyclocross.

Last year I blew a Maxxis Raze right off the rim in a turn on the asphalt. I switched to Bulldogs, which go on much tighter. That gave me some piece of mind. But then this year, I burped air on the off-camber remount after the logs at Starcrossed . I DNF'd because I couldn't get the tire to hold air. It's a UCI race, so there was a referee in the pit. As soon as I got lapped in the pits my race was over.

I thought about investing in some tubeless specific wheels, especially now that they came out with an Ultegra version of the DuraAce tubeless wheel. But I know so many people that swear by tubulars for cross, that I decided to give it a shot.

So I just bought some Campy Eurus tubulars and some Vittoria tires. Haven't raced them yet. Going to start gluing today. Hopefully, everything will go smoothly and I'll be racing them this weekend.

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Permalink Reply by Jason on October 12, 2009 at 4:41pm

UPDATE: Rolled my Hutchinson Bulldog completely off my Ksyrium SL at Beverly Park this Sunday....

But before giving up, I am trying the new solution for Tubeless/Ksyrium combos: Running a rim strip (velox), Stan's Strip (instead of just a valve as I had) and Stan's. It is a bear to put the tire on but is "guaranteed" not to roll off and minimize burping.

It has been observed that the burping happens when a bump forces air to the top/free part of the tire and air escapes from essentially tire stretch...add some more material for the bead to seat to and it tightens the tire.

We will see!

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Permalink Reply by andrew on November 25, 2009 at 3:38pm

hey jason, where did you see this observations of burps at the top of the tire? never seen that before. I can hit a sharp edge and see the leak right there on a loose system. may be worth a video...

thanks!

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Permalink Reply by c-note on October 12, 2009 at 9:29pm

I have raced on tubeless for the past 4 seasons, though primarily on Stan's ZTR 355 29er rims with only the yellow tape. I weigh 155 and have used a variety of tires. Currently I am testing some interesting combinations and you may read about them in the print magazine in the near future. Until then I will say my favorite tires to run are the Ritchey excavaders, Schwalbe racing ralph, and michelin mud. All the aformentioned tires require sealant to work and I lke stan's sealant with the little particles in suspension. I also like the panaracer made tires (includes IRD crossfire), and have run bull dogs which are nice for volume and the fact that they seal up without sealant (though sealant is helpful). In my experience, nothing has worked better than the stan's setup for weight, and ease/sureness-remember I only weigh 155#. A Stan's rimstrip seems to make the kysrium and other combos set up more easily and surely. I see some distinct benefits to a tubeless set up over tubulars and I prefer my tubeless most of the time. A carbon tubular set up sure is light though! And I can ride on a flat tubular all the way to the pit (but it better be glued on correctly!)-Now that may make tubulars worth it-Maybe.

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Permalink Reply by Jason on November 25, 2009 at 1:46am

UPDATE:


Mavic Ksyrium SLs + Velox Rim Tape (even though you don't need it) + Stan's 'cross rim strips + Hutchinson Bulldog = a killer bombproof set up.

I have intentionally smacked the tires into a curb with 25 psi and they do NOT burp. I have raced and ridden them with 0 problems. Heavier than my tubies but almost as supple.

They are a beeeeyatch to install, but the added tension provided by rim strips and stan's strips keep the tires on tight.

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Permalink Reply by Joe Brennan on November 25, 2009 at 1:21pm

Jason, how many layers of Velox Rim Tape did you use for your Ksyriums? Any reason why you used that over the yellow Stan's tape?

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Permalink Reply by andrew on November 25, 2009 at 3:37pm

stan's yellow tape is super thin - just designed to seal up the holes, and not add weight. if you use tire levers, you can actually puncture it. jason was using velox to take up room, because the ksyrium is a deep rim. What I can't figure out is whether the velox tape absorbs sealant. you could use a thicker non-absorbent material as well.

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Permalink Reply by Jason on November 25, 2009 at 7:51pm

The only reason is that it was recommended to the Old Town Bicycle folks by Cyclocrossworld.com.

ONE layer of tape.

I think the only reason VELOX versus STAN's is that it is pretty thick. Now Ksyriums do not have spoke holes, so maybe it is simple economics...all shops have velox tape...but might have to order Stan's? Stan's would work better for a seal with rims with spoke holes.

It works really well. Now if only the Bulldogs wouldn't wear down so quickly!!!

PS: I am using sealant too.

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