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Bought the tubular wheel set ... hope I was right there. Now looking at a good all round performance tubular. So considering:

1st dugast rhino at 175$ (private sale)
2nd challenge grifo - $180
3rd Schwalbe Racing Ralph - $250+
4th Clement PDX $250 with ship

Also found Challenge Grifo xs for $100 + shipping (for dry packed conditions right?)

Which is your favorite all rounder? I'm pretty sure I won't be changing tires off tubular rims for races nearly as much as I did with clinchers, so need someting consistently good.

Last- if you know of any good video sites for removing, installing and maintenance of tubulars, I'd appreciate a push in the general direction.

Oh Danny Boy

p.s.- hope to raise a glass of Guiness this week!

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I've heard great things about the Clement PDX clincher as a great all-rounder - I can only presume that the tubular version is just as good.

Another one is the Challenge Limus.  I have a few friends who rave about this tire and use it all season for all kinds of conditions.

As far as how-to, there's a pretty good video at Cyclocrossworld with Stu Thorne using the belgian tape method.  He seems to do the whole job in one session, whereas most articles I've read have a 24hr curing period between each layer application, except the 3rd where the tire is put on while the glue is still tacky.

My Favs for general conditions is Dugast typhoons & Challenge Grifos.  Rhinos and Ralphs are for mud. have not ridden the PDX's

What do you think of Challenge Grifo XS tubies? They are for sale for on Nashbar for 50$ a tire. They look like they are a dry condition tire. I do a lot of dirt road riding around here to get ready for the Paris to Ancaster race and think they may be appropriate. I used Michelin Jets last year and they were great. Only thing ... They are 34s.

The Grifo XS are nice file threads and work well in dry conditions but suck in wet, loose grass and mud conditions. I don't ride highend Tubies to train, you will wear them out in a half a season. If that is your intention look at Tufo's they are far more durable.  If you are not racing UCI races go with the 34s you will be so much more faster than the 32s. I race all season in 34's and only ride 32s at Nats and Worlds. 


Continental has a great video that shows the multi-step installation process (for a road tire, but still relevant).

Yes saw that video. Pretty Informative - very intimidating. I can see this scenario arising, "Oh, the weather forecast has changed drastically and now the race will be a mud bath ... 3 days to change tires? Yikes!"

Anyway, I read somewhere that hand mades like Challenge and Dugast can have rot problems on the sidewalls if you do not treat them. One article suggested aqua seal. Poking around on the web, I found a product called aqua seal for reparing wetsuits. Is this the stuff to treat these cotton side walled tires ... or is there some other product?


Yes, you have to aqua seal dugast tires, not sure about challenge - and yes, its the same stuff as the wetsuit repair.

You can get it at for 7 bucks a tube.

Skip the the aqua seal, tent seal is better. Its urethane, much thinner and takes several coats.  

Okay, actually saw that this morning and it seemed to be the better choice.

I saw what you commented on someone else's discussion that "brake pads are the least of one's worries with carbon rims". I just bought carbon wheels for my cross bike, but was actually thinking of putting tubular hoops on my Ksyrium SLs. If you pose a strong argument against carbon wheels for cross I might go back to the rebuilding the Mavic's idea. I could always put the Am Classics on wife's bike or sell them to a friend. Let me know what you think Doc.

The old saying goes, don't race it, if you can't replace it. I race on carbon wheels and I break carbon wheels. If I had some wheels that were near and dear to me, I would not race them. Everything I race on, I expect to break. No cabon seatpost or handle bar, they break to often.

Wise reply ... and great advice for life in general. I have never bought a new car.


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