Tubular questions

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Permalink Reply by GeWilli on September 25, 2008 at 11:26am

i'm 200 pounds, but spread out over 6'6"... still 200 pounds

i run clinchers... so take these pressures for what they are...

i can run 40psi on grass courses and not worry about pinch flats at all... but any inattentive riding (like say drafting someone or being on the rivet trying to stick to someone's wheel) through some odd rocks in dirt will get the tires pinched. 45 is better, but unless you learn to float over the rocks and roots you can still pinch flat (at 200 pounds). I notice the difference between the two on the bumpy grass. 40 is way better. I actually ran 35 last year and the tires were collapsing and chattering... that said I could probably get away with somewhere between 35 and 40 for just about any course running tubulars (in my estimation from my experience with clinchers).

YMMV

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Permalink Reply by Mr. President on September 25, 2008 at 11:50am

I have the hutchinson bulldogs on stan's rims and they have done really well holding air. I suck at racing so I will not even try to say I race them wicked hard. They were however the toughest tire I have ever tried to mount. I don't know if it was the tire, rim, or both workign against me. So burping air while an issue isn't my biggest concern to date.

I have the griffos and sometimes it just feels like I am riding a flat tire. I suppose it is just going to take more practice and trial and error.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Mayhew on September 25, 2008 at 11:30am

The tubeless systems aren't going to answer any questions for you. They burp air cornering. Adding more weight to the system isn't going to help.

The minor drawback to tubulars at higher pressure is that they have so-so tread so that in sloppy conditions they may not be as good. It's why you see so much demand for a new mud tread from companies that haven't made a new tire in 20 years.

In dry conditions you're not going to notice it nearly as much, unless the course is particularly bumpy.

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Permalink Reply by GeWilli on September 25, 2008 at 11:46am

if you go with the Fango as your tubular option you'll be covered pretty damn well. two sets maybe you wan the Fango and the challenge Pimpin strello...

i'd love a set of racing ralphs in the tubular version (FMB or Challenge Made Schwable). I think those would be the best for some big guy like me. The Racing ralph clinchers have been quite a pleasure to ride on.

Personally I'd steer clear of Tufo (esp for big guy). I got a chance to race on a rear once and holy crap it was the scariest least traction i've had cornering in wet conditions...

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Permalink Reply by erikv on September 25, 2008 at 11:08pm

I beg to differ. Tubeless systems don't burp air if they're set up reliably. I'm just under 200 pounds and ran sub 40 psi for a whole season last year in Portland with zero problems. I use Stan's rims and Mich Mud2s. I am 100% converted from running tubulars.

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Permalink Reply by GeWilli on September 26, 2008 at 10:19am

[devil's advocate]
ifn ya got a bunch of stan's rims laying around that seems like a decent plan... but if ya gonna be buying rims anyway... might as well go with some tubular ones... no?
/

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Permalink Reply by Mr. President on September 26, 2008 at 10:24am

I will say the wider stan's rim allows the tire to have a larger foot print relative to psi. I weigh in at 224 and the tires have not burped air on me once (hutchinson bulldogs) which are tubeless ready.

I am as rookie as they come so take my advice with several cups of salt.

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Permalink Reply by erikv on September 29, 2008 at 7:22am

No. If you're going to build a new set of wheels, the Stans option is no more elaborate than tubular. Most people don't have a whole lot of rims "lying around," you pack rat! ;)

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Permalink Reply by GeWilli on September 29, 2008 at 9:15am

yeah - so my point... if ya are gonna buy rims to build wheels, why not get tubular instead of the stans rims...

ya got supporting argument to sway someone away from the speed and grip of a nice set of Fangos?

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Permalink Reply by Mr. President on September 29, 2008 at 9:22am

well, I think it probably has less to do with feeling of a tubular set up as it does with easier options.

Let us say hypothetically that there are some really nice clincher tires, which there are.

Most tires (except for the challenge options...figures) will seal up and give you the added benefits of a no pinch flat set up...like a tubular. No they might not have as supple of a sidewall, and that is the major draw back. You can swap out tires easily, run tubes if you wish to, and while stans stuff can be messy, if you are too close to an ape it takes little practice and intelligence to sort it out. One wheelset with many options. Tubular rims, tires are glued on and that is it. Switching tires on the same wheelset can be a bear...even if you are a badass tire gluer/changer, the work invovled might be a pain. atmo

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Permalink Reply by erikv on October 2, 2008 at 10:17pm

Sure I do. Maintenance and expense.

Tubeless brings several advantages:

- easy to change a tire
- lots of tire choices, and even the good ones are comparatively inexpensive.
- no pinch flats
- FAST mounting
- flat protection with sealant (just like you'd get with Tufo tubies)

For me, the biggie was speed of tire replacement. Whenever I flatted or rolled a tubular, I had to peel it off, clean the rim, and then spend at least a couple days gluing it. The maintenance sucks, so I'd take shortcuts, and I'd roll a tire because of it.

And how much does a new Fango cost? More than a quality clincher tire. And if you flat, do you need to buy another? That adds up, too.

I've ridden tubulars (I used Tufos with sealant), and I loved them, but the maintenance time and added expense lead me to push things longer than I should have.

If you have the time to maintain them, and the budget to replace them when they should be replaced, go for it. Otherwise, I'd at least consider a tubeless setup.

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Permalink Reply by Unoveloce on September 25, 2008 at 12:05pm

The type of tubular you run will have some impact, especially on traction. A better quality tire will absolutely get better traction in the sloppy conditions due to the ability of the casing to conform to the ground and not get plugged with mud. A cheaper tubular run at lower pressures will just fold on you and still won't conform to the ground like a nicer tubby. They will be more comfortable and you won't pinch, though.

Riding a low pressure tubular is a different riding style than with clinchers. The bike tends to stay a bit more upright and you really have to weight the outside pedal. It took me a full season to where I felt comfortable running low pressures in my tubulars.

I'm 195lbs spread over 6'4" and I can run anywhere from 30-38 psi in my tires, depending on the course and how it's laid out. On a fast course with some high speed grass/pavement transitions I might run a bit more psi than I would on a slower course.

If you have too little air in your tubbies, the worst thing is folding a sidewall in a corner and potentially rolling a tire, although if you have a good glue job, it shouldn't ever roll. After you recover from the bobble a folded tire gives you, you still have full pressure. With tubeless, if you psi is a bit low and you burp a tire in a corner, then you have even less if not zero psi in your tires.

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