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Rolled my tubies at CX practice - need advice
I rolled 2 tubulars at CX practice last night (separate events) - obviously I need advice on gluing or tire pressures.
I've attached pictures of the tires where they let go. The failure modes look different: the front (first two pics) the glue stayed on the rim. The front had the used tire on it. On the rear (new tire), the glue stayed on the base tape. The parts of the rear tire base tape that look unglued are just where the glue stayed on the rim (mostly on the edges)
This morning I tested the tires by hand with no pressure in them - the glue (in the areas that didn't fail) feels very solid.
Gluing method: the wheels were used. Prior to gluing up tires I cleaned all old glue off the rim and whatever I could physically get off the used tire's base tape. 2 thin layers of glue with brush on rim, 2 on the base tape (1 on the used tire). Lots of drying time between coats. Then one last layer on the rim with 20mins drying prior to tire mounting.
Specifics
Wheels: Mavic Ksyrium ES (used, cleaned prior to gluing with 3M solvent)
Glue: Vittoria Mastik One
Rim Cleaner: 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner (3M 051135-08984)
Tires: Challenge Fangos, 34c front (used), 32c rear (new)
PSI: 36 rear, 34 front (set with an accurate gauge)
Rider weight: 200 lbs
Course conditions: dry, mixed; rear rolled on a grass-asphalt transition, front on packed dirt
Too much glue? Not enough pressure? Rough up the rim glue surface? Different tires or glue??
Thanks - Rocket88
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2011-09-22 10.03.15.jpg, 67 KB -
2011-09-22 10.03.46.jpg, 62 KB
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2011-09-22 10.05.53.jpg, 66 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Chris Mayhew on
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http://web.archive.org/web/20090131073400/http://cyclocrossworld.co...
There's a video too but I find the written directions easier. Follow them to the T, it's the definitive method.
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Permalink Reply by Rocket88 on
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Thanks for the link. As luck would have it the instructions I followed (from road bike action) were the same as Stu's. The only thing I might have missed is that the 3M cleaner does have some naphtha (along with a bunch of non-oily solvents like xylene, toluene, etc) - maybe a final cleaning with alcohol would have been in order prior to gluing?
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Permalink Reply by Jared on
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learn to be "easier" on your wheels. If you are not "light" on the wheels... you will roll
Don't push the wheels from the side into corners, let them roll through. If you are abrupt with them, they will roll
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There's very little excuse for rolling a tubular. It's a gluing issue, not a riding issue.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Szwaya on
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I use the Belgian tape method. 2 layers glue. Belgian tape, one more of glue and then mount. I think cyclocrossworld has the tape.
I'm 200# like you and have rolled a few over the years. I think we put a little more pressure on the glue job than most, especially when it starts getting hard and bouncy. I have felt the belgian method is a little more reliable than just 2-3 layers of glue alone.
I don't know your riding style but Jared has a point, you will need to learn to be a little lighter on the wheels. With our weight, we can't just ramble over everything and expect the bike to hold up. Transitions can be particularly tough. Good luck.
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My Belgian tape just arrived today! In addition to not using the tape last time, my glue may have been old (I don't think the local shop goes through it quickly). So, take two this week with tape and fresh glue. Thanks for the advice.
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Permalink Reply by andrew on
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What kind of glue did you use? Both tape and no tape method work well, but I find a pretty thick sloppy coat at the end helps fill the gaps too. Also the thing is that wider (34) actual are actually harder to glue properly on road rims since the round profiles don't match very well.
I can't wait until someone actually builds a cx-specific tubular rim. There are many great wide rims out there labeled for cx, but they are actually all designed for road tires.
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